Foto: Sarah Ismail
Interview with Till Werkmeister of Fake Plastic on indie rock, creative freedom, imperfection in rock, and the value of art today.
Mia Lada-Klein
Fake Plastic stand for alternative and experimental rock, a little mysterious and above all poetic. Their first album was released in September 2023, followed by their second record, Awake in the Night, in March 2025. In indie circles their name has long been making the rounds, catching curious ears.
The three musicians of Fake Plastic form a classic trio with vocals and guitar, bass, and drums. I invited songwriter, singer, and frontman Dr. Till Werkmeister for a conversation about the things that really matter. Indie rock, the cultural scene, and its slow decline. The interview also touches on the new album, perfection in rock, and what the quality of art really means today.
Till, please introduce yourself briefly. Who are you and what do you do?
Till Werkmeister: Like you, I originally come from Hesse. I was born in Kassel and after my civil service I moved to Hamburg. I have been living here for almost thirty years now. Music has always been a part of my life. From an early age I had a strong affinity for poetry and the connection between lyrics and music. It has always been a kind of passion. I then studied English literature. My original plan was actually an academic career. But at the same time I always made music. However, a lot changed at the universities. The freedom to dive deeply into topics became more limited and the curricula became more regulated. Eventually, that no longer suited my ideas. Starting a family made it even more complicated. Today I work for a foundation in the field of education. I do lobbying for non-profit educational institutions and a bit of product development. It is a creative and varied job. At the same time, I have been playing music intensively again for almost ten years. With my band Fake Plastic things are going very well right now. In the past I had collaborators who were a bit more easygoing. Now I finally have someone by my side who is just as ambitious and crazy as I am. That makes a huge difference in a band.
Bands often function like small companies, ideally as a team. How do you see that?
Till Werkmeister: I see it exactly the same way. It does not feel good when one person has to pull everyone else all the time. In projects, whether in a band or in a professional environment, you need sparring partners. People who have the same drive and who want to create something. Individuals with a strong will to create exist even in solo professions like writers, but even they ultimately need a community. In a band, this kind of sparring is even more important. You need people around you who bring the same drive, the same passion, and the same kind of craziness. That is when something really good can happen.
Fake Plastic, music, and understanding genres
Let’s talk specifically about Fake Plastic. What kind of music do you make? The name sounds more like electronic music at first.
Till Werkmeister: Yes, actually I am not completely happy with the name myself. Back then I was slightly overruled. We actually make indie rock, but more like it was understood in the past: raw, lyrical, unconventional. I think there has been a kind of Coldplay-ization of indie rock; everything has become smoother, more streamlined, and more mainstream. Bands like Modest Mouse in their early days or Pavement were formative for me: original, brave, anti-mainstream. Today, “indie rock” is often associated with something completely different, and the term has a somewhat negative connotation. That is why we now call our music “Global Rock.” But my biggest influence definitely comes from the old indie world.
The genre still exists. As a music journalist, I still cover a lot of indie.
Till Werkmeister: Absolutely. But it is also a topic that concerns me a lot. Scene boundaries and genre boundaries are becoming a kind of fetish. You either assign yourself to one corner or the other, including clothing, appearance, identity. I am completely different in that regard. For me, it is about quality, not boxes. And I notice the same in you: you have preferences, but you are open. You do not say, “This is my genre and nothing else matters.” You look for good music, no matter which corner it comes from.
I find that important. Of course, everyone has favorite genres, simply because they know that many things resonate with them there. But that does not mean you have to dismiss everything else. I find those memes so sad, where different genres are played against each other, for example metal against schlager and so on. I do not listen to schlager privately, but I would never say it is grotesque or worthless. This either-or thinking is destructive. We should stop putting people, opinions, and music into rigid boxes. Differentiation is lost and I see that far too often in the world today.
Till Werkmeister: I also find these terms quite useful. They provide a kind of orientation, a recognizable space. If you hear “country rock,” you know roughly how it sounds and what themes occur. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the music. Quality is always decided within the genre. And quality is an exciting topic for me. You recently had some posts about it that I found very interesting. For me, special bands are characterized by taking up traditions but creating something new within that framework. They combine elements differently, emphasize certain aspects more, or bring a new sensibility into a genre. That is exactly what we try to do with Fake Plastic as well. Perhaps that is why we are so hard to categorize. A lot of different influences flow in, and we do our thing somewhat against the mainstream.
That is interesting because I recently did an interview with the deathcore band Detartrated, through which I first got into this genre. They basically said the same thing: music needs something familiar, but also enough new elements for people to engage with it.
Till Werkmeister: Absolutely. Music should provide points of connection so that people can even get into it. At the same time, it must have something special that sparks curiosity. You described it well: elements must be compatible enough so that you do not feel completely alien. But they should also create enough friction for something interesting to happen. And often it helps to explain to people why something is good. If you share enthusiasm, others sometimes notice aspects that had not caught their attention before. Then they suddenly discover something they like, simply because someone showed them a new perspective.
I know that very well from my work. I learned the craft, did a traineeship, studied, now work in an editorial office. In some magazines, though not all, texts feel careless, copy-paste like. A good text should make people want to listen, read, or watch. How do you experience that as a musician?
Till Werkmeister: Musicians and critics are actually in the same boat. Both have to hope that quality will prevail. And in both cases it is about taste, sensitivity, and a certain cultivation. For critics, quality means recognizing something special, describing it precisely, and really thinking deeply about music. Or it means not just producing cookie-cutter texts. I really hope that in our highly leveled, mass media-dominated culture, works with substance will still prevail. But you have to be consistent, keep developing, work disciplined, and know your own abilities.
And perhaps also know what you cannot do. Honesty is part of it. For example, I cannot play any instrument at all. I tried. My partner at the time was a musician and seriously wanted to teach me, but at some point even he had to admit, “You have no talent for this.”
Till Werkmeister: (Laughs) There are cases like that. And sometimes it depends a lot on what you really want. Technique, for example, is not my thing, not because I could not do it, but because I simply am not interested. That does not mean you do not have musical access. Your reviews show that you can describe production, sound aesthetics, and the atmosphere of a song very well. That is also musicality, just on a different level. And honestly, reviews explaining chord progressions interest very few people anyway. There is this type on the internet constantly analyzing what makes a song great. It is funny, sometimes helpful, but it remains nerd talk. Your approach is different and equally important. In your reviews, you often try to describe specific musical qualities.
Till, you know, our reviewer Marcus at Montagslyriker once mentioned that he distinguishes between “adult music” and “something else.” There is music that works very plainly, with lots of “bum bum bum” and immediate access. That is usually for teenagers dancing in the mosh pit and drinking. Then there is music that you cannot just play for a teenager. It has finesse, technique, and a very high level of instrumental skill. It is something else. These two camps exist in lyrics too. Some go very deep and write elegantly, others only want short snippets. Maybe it also depends on age?
Till Werkmeister: Young people often also have a very good intuitive access. They feel when something has quality. I think someone from the Red Hot Chili Peppers once said he was proud that children love their songs because kids recognize spontaneously when a melody is special. They pick up on it and get excited about it. I experienced the same in my youth. Many kids at twelve or fourteen develop enormous expertise, know every band, and read every lyric sheet. I hope that still exists.
Children can really immerse themselves in things. You know that from your own environment.
Till Werkmeister: Absolutely. When kids are interested in something, they really are. That enthusiasm is completely genuine.
But what is important to you in a song? And can you as a musician still listen to music without constantly analyzing it?
Till Werkmeister: I still listen to a lot of music and I really enjoy it. But for me, the album is more important. A song matters, but it is more like an appetizer for the bigger picture. I want to know what a band really wants to say with a record. That is why I look at how an album is structured, whether there is a theme or a red thread. I am interested in whether someone is skillful in telling a story. I am always looking for something special and for depth. The rock classics demonstrate that impressively. Even a widely played album like Hotel California is a complex work about American culture, mythology, and cultural critique. Albums like that impress me a lot.
Music industry, audience, and the future
Today songs are often released individually, albums lose importance. It has become very fast-paced. Many just release songs without following an album concept. And long pieces like those by The Who or Guns N’ Roses would probably hardly get played in the Spotify algorithm.
Till Werkmeister: That is bitter and makes it difficult for bands that want to create big works. We love our own album because we know it has the potential to become a classic. There is a lyrical connection, a story across eleven songs. But this depth is hardly recognized today. There was a time when quality and popularity coincided. That characterizes a strong era of art. If you take that as a benchmark, we are not living in a particularly good phase right now. There are exceptions like Lana Del Rey. For her, quality and popularity coincide. She has something to say and people listen to her. But often today, rather trivial stuff is successful, while artists who really have something to say remain underground.
That’s true. Andy Brings put it very aptly in our interview. He said that today a lot of things get pushed to the top that would actually need more time in the rehearsal room, and I can only agree. Many use numbers as a measure of quality. If someone has two thousand or three thousand followers on Instagram, they think they are the next Rolling Stones. It is sad but true. You get too much digital radiation. It does not make things better in terms of quality. For me, recognition only begins where people recognize you on the street, where someone asks for a photo in a restaurant. Many bands are far from that.
Till Werkmeister: These numbers are superficial. The core of making music is to trigger something in people and reach them. You want people to engage with your art. You cannot measure that in likes or followers. What matters are comments, conversations, people saying a song saved their life or helped them through tough times. That is the essence. Likes cannot express that. Behind them is a fake world.
Many bands also present themselves outwardly as a community, as friends, as a family, but that is not always true either.
Till Werkmeister: The cohesion that is often communicated outwardly does not always exist. That is true. We grew up in a scene where indie bands stuck together. Today I am surprised how selfish, elbow-oriented, and ignorant many have become. There are some homie-bands that are creatively and personally strong. But there are also others whose music I like, but whose behavior is unacceptable. You think: You make good music, but as a person it seems difficult.
Do you think artistic quality is related to personality?
Till Werkmeister: Yes. The really good bands often bring humanity, sensitivity, and a mindful approach. The more blunt ones might achieve a two, but rarely a one. Their own bluntness stands in their way. I experience it exactly that way.
I think success is also always linked to intelligence.
Till Werkmeister: However, some people actively play the mechanisms of the media world, even if they are intelligent, and that puts me off. They do not change the public for the better, they just meet expectations. It is similar to Trump. He seems shallow but is certainly intelligent. He is a strategic power player who knows exactly how to manipulate people. That does not make him likable. People like Verona Pooth have rather adaptive intelligence. True artistry works differently. It does not try to serve the zeitgeist, but to develop it further. It is about creating something better, not cleverly exploiting the lowest instincts.
Let’s get back to Fake Plastic as a band. What drives you?
Till Werkmeister: In our genre a certain suffering in life always plays a role, this pushing against normality, and at the same time the desire to make life better. Utopian spaces also interest me: how could things be different? That sounds more political than it ultimately is, but there is an attitude behind it. This subversive rock culture often lives from frustration. That is why rock singers scream, that is why much is atonal and off-kilter, because they want to show: things could be different.
How do you approach lyrics?
Till Werkmeister: Our lyrics should have depth, but I rarely write linear storytelling. Many bands do that, but it is not my thing. I work a lot with onomatopoeia and like to leave meanings open. Ambiguity belongs to it. Listeners should be able to develop their own images. I think that also sets us apart from many other bands.
How does this work on your albums?
Till Werkmeister: I always try to carry a mood throughout a full song cycle. On our last record Awake in the Night we managed that well. The new album is a proper “hard rock heartbreak album.” Very emotional, very desperate, though not autobiographical one-to-one. And I break a lot with irony so it does not get too heavy.
Many say you no longer need a label. Do you see it that way too?
Till Werkmeister: Yes. If you are motivated and work at it, you can do almost everything yourself today. My strength is songwriting, that would be my super skill. I even dream songs. Every month I record ten to fifteen song ideas and thus have a huge pool. Melodies come easily to me and our songs always have something catchy, often also somewhat stadium-like. And I like the English language.
I read lyrics passionately and analyze them. I even had songwriting in university, although I was not particularly good at it. Poetry suits me more than writing songs.
Till Werkmeister: Maybe that has to do with the fact that you do not play an instrument. That often helps with songwriting.
How would you describe your own singing?
Till Werkmeister: My singing is actually rather garage-like. I am strongly influenced by a “garage and punk rock vibe.” It is raw, unpolished. A mix that is very exciting.
I like that garage rock sound a lot. Many modern productions lose the live feeling for me. For me, this garage feeling is an antidote to overproduction. Many productions have like 780 tracks, everything sounds super smooth, almost AI-generated. This ultra-clean destroys the soul of music. I am a big Clash fan. I love moments where the voice cracks. That hardly exists today. That one moment in the original I Fought the Law where the voice breaks, that is the most beautiful moment. That is exactly where humanity shows. Today, everything is trimmed for perfection.
Till Werkmeister: Definitely. In rock music imperfection is the basic principle. When a voice struggles, emotion arises. That is rock music. Mistakes can create brilliance. It is not about every note being perfect, on the contrary. Perfection sounds inhuman. Many productions sound extremely uniform nowadays, especially due to tools like autotune, and that destroys the friction and tension that makes good rock. When everything sounds perfect, it no longer sounds human but like an algorithm.
What occupies you most as a band right now?
Till Werkmeister: The greatest desire is still to reach people. We have an album, we have songs that are really well received, and there is definitely an audience that would celebrate it. At concerts we notice how different the people who like us are: regular concertgoers, metalheads, hard rock fans, scene people, artists, everything is completely mixed. The path to the people is long and arduous. We try everything possible. Last weekend, for example, we took the train all the way to Freiburg with amps, drums, everything on trolleys. Across Germany. Played a gig, stayed overnight, back the next day. You do that for 30 or 40 people in the audience, hoping they share, carry on, and come back.
Ticket sales have become difficult anyway.
Till Werkmeister: Totally. And you feel it everywhere, even with bands that usually fill halls easily.
Is there still hope?
Till Werkmeister: Absolutely. You must always keep hope. You meet people who appreciate art, culture, or music. These encounters give energy and comfort in the end.
More about the band Fake Plastic can be found on their socials.
More Soundcheck Sessions are available on the website.
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